Wednesday, 8th September 2010

The Woman Question: GC President Speaks to Student Leaders on Women’s Ordination

Posted on 21. Apr, 2010 by Peter Katz in Community

The Woman Question: GC President Speaks to Student Leaders on Women’s Ordination

“Make sure you have sought and understood the consensus” – Jan Paulsen, 9 April 2010 to the Adventist Intercollegiate Association meeting at Canadian University College

The following is a compiled transcript of General Conference President Jan Paulsen’s answers to a Q&A with student government leaders from all the Adventist colleges and universities across North America (except Washington Adventist University).

[Initial inquiry about women’s ordination.  The questioner was under the impression that it would be an issue discussed at the upcoming GC meeting.]

At the meetings that finished this Wednesday, I made a statement to our church leaders.  Coming out of our counsel this October, there were several requests that touched on this issue: where are we going as a church regarding women in leadership issues, and by what process do we affirm women in leadership.  Questions of that kind came up then.  I met with my closest advisory leadership teams […] for three or four days planning in January, and we talked about this in the planning meeting.  We agreed that I would try to obtain the thinking, the pulse of the church globally with respect precisely to this issue.  As you know, we’ve addressed it twice before in the General Conference, and frankly, the last thing we need is to bring it before a conference when we know the answer is going to be voted down.

We have to think through where we are going with this.  We had an agreement that I would contact all of the 13 regions of the global church not to undertake a new survey, but to take a rating of the pulse of these regions in the church—how does our church, how does leadership, view this issue.  I asked two questions: tell me about the range of roles that women have today in leadership in this church; how do you affirm them in that role?  Would you welcome an opportunity to ordain women to ministry in your region?  Even if you answer number two as no, would it negatively impact you if the church in some other part of the world decided to ordain women in the ministry?  The very clear answer that came back—and they did a pretty thorough checking and testing, contrary to what is reported in a particular journal that reported that “8 men vetoed women”; it was not one person’s decision, but rather one hundred people—by far 75% or so of the global territories came back and said, “No, we are not ready to ordain women to the ministry in our part of the world; yes, we would be negatively impacted if the church were to do it anywhere in the world.”

Okay.  That’s the answer I have to live with.  And it’s not easy, but let me also say that even in those parts of the world that said not only are we not ready to do it, but that it would negatively impact the church in our division as far as the unity of the church was concerned, they also said to me, “We are not where we were ten years ago; there is movement in thinking.”  Not just we are not ready to do it, but we are not ready yet— hinting that a certain education process needs to go on.  Any change in the church is a slow process, and sometimes, it takes a new generation to make change.

[Inquiry about his personal view on women’s ordination, and how it will change.]

All of my colleagues in leadership know that I have stated that I know of no biblical reason that women should not be selected […] I think the reasons that nothing has happened are cultural based.  A greater value to me than a question on what is going to happen […] is to hold this church together, globally.  The unity of the global church is a doctrine;  many issues are not doctrines that we deal with, but this one is. So, I will give it my best shot to keep the church together.  We are not going to do this globally […] it will be in regions.  But globally, the church has to accept that it will be in regions without tearing itself apart.

[My own inquiry about the paradox of denying the validity of cultures in favor of women’s ordination in favor of cultural pluralism.]

I said this a couple minutes ago: that the question of unity is not only impacted by what you do, but it can be negatively impacted by what you don’t do. By being insensitive to the needs of the church when there is not a clear biblical mandate … all I’m saying here is that I’m trying to move something on, and I don’t know where it’s going to go or how quickly. I sense that there are shifts that are there.  I really don’t know what else to say to that.

Share:
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • email
  • Print

Tags: , , , ,

  • Just sharing some great tips on reverse call look up amd discover who called me?


    Telling you my first hand experiences how I came to know about phone number look up method through online sites. Few years back I lost my one of the employee’s phone number who had been laid off at that time with the promise of hiring back at some future time. He was a part time employee of my firm and was very much determined and hardworking. But because of the downfall of my company I was forced to fire out few of the employees for my business survival.

    After stabilizing my business position again in the market I realized the need of one of my old employee. Now I had to look upon all the methods I can use and select the best possible choice to find out the employee for me. I searched for him by visiting his house but unfortunately he had moved to somewhere else. So I decided to look upon him on face book and twitter and few such social connectivity centers. On searching on these frameworks I realized that I had adopted a dragged activity for looking up and there can be several people found on face book of the similar names.

    Then I goggled his name on but could not find something valid or worthwhile. I became completely hopeless. After few days one of my friends guided me about the online sites and asked me to obtain complete knowledge about this method like how to use? What would be its cost and would it be reliable and worthwhile enough to give me something valid on searching for the employee. My first step towards this approach was to conduct an online research and find out the best suited site for my needs.

    There were several sites giving information to search through phone number, name or through any basic information of the person. I entered the name of the employee and locate him quickly, I approached him as I was given the exact current and previous location of the person and got several other details of him which helped me a lot in finding him. In this way online sites assisted me in finding one of the most needed employees of my company.

    Learn more about who called me and discover whose fax number is this.
  • Tammy williams
    The Bible does not ever give permisiion for women to preach and I am an Adventist!
    Women do have a role in the ministry but not from the pulpit and the church has ignored the biblilical teaching on this!
    It's like saying we know Saturday is the Sabbath but we keep Sunday because it's convienient too.
    The church should NOT encourage women preachers -see I know I used to preach too -preach to my husband and my dad who by the way are the heads of the home and undoubtly these roles should also be taken by the men in the church.
    No I am not against feminism hey I'm a girl too but that's precisely why I should'nt preach - God did not bestow this honour upon me but upon a man and I praise Him for this!

    A woman's role should be seen as a supportive one -in teaching,women's ministry,nurturing,healing etc
    Is she short changed?
    Absolutely not!
    SHE gets to be the lovely creature that God designed her to be
    Beautiful and strong in heart and complete.
    No more no less
    Get the women of the pulpits and put the men there instead of shunning their God given responsibilities
    Sorry but it's the truth!!
    Don't look for support in the Bible guys on women being pastors/elders cause it's just not there!!!!
  • Jeff Cody
    It really doesn't matter if women get ordained if what they are preaching is no better than what the men are preaching. What you have there is the democratization of an illusion.
  • 4th gen AL
    Spoken like a typical politician... That's a lot of words to beat around the bush to saying NO. When are we as a church going to have some backbone again?
  • Louise Jones
    I am unable to take an educational, scholarly view on the issue of women's ordination as elders or pastors. However, I do not see it in the Bible. Although I read in the Bible of women judges and women who preached the gospel, I haven't read that they were ordained by the laying on of hands. I don't want to let the pressures of culture or being up with the times take away from Biblical truth. If the Bible does not support women's ordination, how can I?
  • jillianspencer
    Are nominating committees or Pathfinders in the Bible? Maybe we should stop doing that, too. Are GC sessions in the Bible? Hm. . . What about evangelistic series? I don't see any of those in the text, either. It would seem we have been caught up with the times, and not following Biblical truth.

    Obviously, I'm being sarcastic. But I do applaud you for actually reading your Bible--for that, you have my undying respect. It takes a good deal of courage to argue an unpopular opinion on the basis of the Bible these days.

    PS GC transcripts are up on Dr. Sheldon's door. Alas, they will reveal that this particular line of reasoning of mine is in no ways original. He who conceals his sources best. . .?
  • Jillian Spencer
    Dr. Fulton, I would like to respectfully remind you that the dietary and clothing practices so familiar to us here in the United States are not actually always practiced in Adventist circles around the world. Vegetarianism is a cultural byproduct of our missionaries, not a part of the list of beliefs that identifies one as an Adventist. In some regions, meat is all that is available. For this reason, an early Adventist GC president (whose name unfortunately escapes me) refused to sign an agreement that would make North American dietary practices worldwide orthodoxy.

    I think Paulsen's right in that there needs to be a greater education on this issue--because it's not just a cultural issue. A good deal of the argument is wrapped up over how to interpret the Bible's "problem texts" in regard to the role of women in the church. Many who oppose women's ordination do so not because they are "woman-haters" or extreme chauvinists (in fact, many are women), but because they truly believe that they are following the Bible to the letter.

    The history of this issue is complex. It came up in the 1990 and 1995 GC sessions. For those of you who are interested, the Heritage Room team will be posting the transcripts from the relevant sessions from these years on the bulletin board outside of Dr. Sheldon's office in the Religion Department within the next week or two. This gives a good sampling of the reasoning on either side of the issue, and why nothing happened at either one. They can also be found online in the GC Archives.

    Obviously, I support the call of women into ministry, or I wouldn't be studying for ministry myself. I just recommend caution in bashing the other side of the issue.
  • Jill...
    Thanks for your comments (I just now saw them). I was not thinking of vegetarianism in my earlier comment, but prohibitions on eating pork, and on women covering their breasts (for example), as well as prohibitions on practices like polygamy. You have traveled much more widely than I have, I will be pleased to be instructed that the Adventist Church no longer requires its members in cultures where pork or uncovered breasts or polygamy are widely accepted elements to conform to North American Adventist expectations. But the point seems to cut both ways - if the Adventist church is flexible in diet and fashion, then why not with women's ordination? If not flexible with diet and fashion (presuming that some of these practices are just morally wrong in some absolute and universal sense) then, again, why not with women's ordination?
  • jillianspencer
    The problem is wrapped up in the fact that ordination, as it stands, may be issued in one place in the church, and be valid all over the world. If I were ordained (not commissioned), that would give me pastoral privileges of marrying, burying, performing communion, etc., not just in California (where a goodly population doesn't care what gender I am) but also in, oh say, Tennessee, where opposition to women's ordination is strong and it would be a stumbling block to their faith. The issue is that the certification you issue in one part of the church is valid worldwide. Now, if that policy were re-drafted, you may get a number of angry male pastors inhibited by not being able to baptize on mission trips, but you could ordain locally without so many repercussions in the rest of the world.

    I hope this particular bit of ecclesiastical nonesense was helpful. The way things stand right now, I could actually be ordained/commissioned in California--that's what NCC credentials say for everyone. Those credentials just wouldn't be valid if I were to try to perform a wedding or communion or baptisms in a foreign country, or even in a different conference, depending on their local policy involving ordination.

    By the way, you should be proud to know that women are ordained in this conference! Most people don't seem to know that. I really admire the elegance of issuing "commissioned/ordained" to everyone--it's more Biblical (no one's ordained; we're all commissioned) and egalitarian at the same time.
  • rosatti
    One more thing I want to say to all....Before we say something against one of our leaders, without proof of wrong doing.....Let us meditate on what happen to the israelites when they spoke against the servant of God, and when David Knowing Saul was guiltily of sin , did not raise word against him for fear of God....
    Pastor Paulsen, yet a sinner like all of us, he is still the servant and selected of God to serve his people.
    It was for this kind of spirit that the hebrews did not enter in to the promises land.
  • rosatti
    Dear Pastor Paulsen:

    For many years, this subject has been of serious tension among us adventist, some of us we believed that this is want God intended, for men to serve God in this matter, and for Woman to serve God by preparing the child to serve God when they grow up.

    For others, there is a feeling that they are responsible to take action for the advancement of the the gospel. That the church needs to move with time, and the this position of leadership was only intended for a period in the past life of the church and culture....

    Which bring us to a point of division......

    If this comes from God, Why are we stopping it.
    But if this doesn't not come from God, how can we know for certain?


    Can the body of Christ be Divided? I think not, because if we are of God, we will hear his voice, and know it is Him who is calling us for action....

    Jesus says one's to his disciples when John said: "Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."

    50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."(luke 9:49-50)

    Can this words be apply to this matter as well....I think we can.....It is writing, "For whoever is not against you is for you".....

    God had to let Sin take its course, so we may know the love of God and be faithful for everlasting life and seek for that day yet to come.
    but also, the truth of rebellion needed to be seen by the worlds in heaven.

    I suggest dear brothers and sisters in Christ, first that we came to God in fasting and prayer, that if we all pray, would He not be with us as He said He would?
    We also need to repent for all our sins, in order for the devil not to have anything against us.

    And to let the course of this movement take its course.....And if it is for used, who knows it would bring the end of all things...... is this not what we are so hoping for... The second coming of our Lord.

    let us not be the ones to stop the work of God, if we believe that all things work for the good of those that love God...

    but rather let God take care of his people....the sincere and clean of heart has nothing to fear....God is with Him.

    I hope we can see that God desires humble hearts, that are willing to come to him for answers.....

    1 Kings 8:33-35
    "When your people Israel have been defeated by an enemy because they have sinned against you, and when they turn back to you and confess your name, praying and making supplication to you in this temple, 34 then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of your people Israel and bring them back to the land you gave to their fathers.

    35 "When the heavens are shut up and there is no rain because your people have sinned against you, and when they pray toward this place and confess your name and turn from their sin because you have afflicted them, 36 then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of your servants, your people Israel. Teach them the right way to live, and send rain on the land you gave your people for an inheritance.

    2 Chronicles 7:14 (New International Version)

    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

    God Bless you Brothers and Sister....see you soon, Jesus Is coming, He is coming Indeed....33 years I have waited, how many more you want to wait for him?

  • noel sacay
    thanks for the inspiring message.
  • I think Elder Paulson did what was right for his position at the time, especially considering the very hard push towards electing a much more conservative President this term. If he were have taken this issue up, it very may have come down to the issue of extreme conservatism winning the Presidency of the GC and we would be set back 50 years or more in the way in which we might move forward as a church.

    While I do not agree with his decision on principle, as a leader I very much respect his predicament and decision to let my generation burn brighter when we have our say.

    @ Maria R-B - Probably when the older generation passes the reigns to the church to mine, or even decides to ask questions of faith rather than settle for pat answers about misnomers.

  • Lillian Rosa Correa
    I repeatedly hear Elder Paulsen speak of the "unity of the church" but I hear no one affirming the fact that the church is its individual members, 70% of which comprises women. When you bypass justice for the sake of unity, Elder Paulsen, you end up uniting people around injustice.
  • AubynFulton
    I appreciate the difficulty of Elder Paulsen's predicament, but this really is not good enough. The Adventist Church has had no difficulty intruding into a wide array of cultural practices around the world, including dietary and clothing practices, using its moral compass as its legitimation. But when it comes to issues of gender equality it suddenly becomes tentative and hesitant and subordinates the most profound moral imperatives to new-found cultural sensitivity. The hypocrisy is stunning, exceeded only by the immorality. There may not be easy answers, but there must be better answers than "in the second decade of the 21st century of the Common Era we are not yet ready to treat women as the equal of men. Check back with us in 20 years". I guess the needle is no longer true to the pole, and we have lost the ability to call sin by its right name.
  • Maria R-B
    Thanks for posting this update, Peter. I wonder when the SDA church will decide that it's the 'right' time to act.
blog comments powered by Disqus